tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post1282830104360526724..comments2023-12-23T02:17:12.549-08:00Comments on Quest for Fun!: Warmachine 40KGary Rayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11897166491600280320noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-24901252040228395482008-02-17T20:24:00.000-08:002008-02-17T20:24:00.000-08:00Yes, Man O'War should also have been on my list of...Yes, Man O'War should also have been on my list of "semi-stand-alone"* games that GW could reintroduce.<BR/><BR/>*semi-stand-alone meaning that it would be a game with a few boxed expansions, but no full line of books and miniatures.JoeDoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04768616880852081399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-63257437784713805582008-02-17T13:44:00.000-08:002008-02-17T13:44:00.000-08:00"It may well be that the line is profitable, just ..."It may well be that the line is profitable, just not as profitable as predicted/desired"<BR/><BR/>That alone can't be it, or they would cancel it like they did the RPGs. That combined with the desire to recoup the costs of the licensing fees that you mentioned, whether or not they can get out of continuing to pay them, may be what's going on. Regardless, it's currently a tar baby that is causing them to make poor choices in other areas of their business.<BR/><BR/>If they were to consider other options for a third "core game" they might want to look back at Man O' War. It's still the highest rated GW game on BGG (#2 miniature game behind Warmachine), and has lots of options for expansions, yet it's not even supported by Specialist Games.<BR/><BR/>The fact that it's a naval game means that it supplements the other two Warhammer core games, rather than competing with them as yet another land-battle game as LotR does.Fulminatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14332824290977548527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-78801540725764474432008-02-17T11:49:00.000-08:002008-02-17T11:49:00.000-08:00They could also revamp the LOTR game so that it su...They could also revamp the LOTR game so that it suits their marketing strategy.<BR/><BR/>GW marketing strategy = mass combat games that allow GW to continue releasing items so that customers are always changing, modifying, and expanding their armies. This provides lots of follow on sales once the customer begins playing.<BR/><BR/>LOTR rules = small scale skirmish game that only works well for a small group of heroes to engage in small scale battles with a slightly larger group of less powerful foes, or against one very powerful foe.<BR/><BR/>The Mines of Moria version of the starter set works pretty nicely as a game, but doesn't really require much else before it becomes unwieldy and unplayable. <BR/><BR/>GW has refused suggestions and offers to restructure the core rules to make it more effective and playable as a mass combat game like WHFB or 40k. They have also decided not to make it into more of an RPG/skirmish set (probably due to licensing restrictions).<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure if it's contractual obligations to New Line and the Tolkien estate (they have two separate licenses, iirc), or just a desire to get back enough from their investment, that keeps them invested so heavily into the LOTR line. It may well be that the line is profitable, just not as profitable as predicted/desired - this can hurt stock prices due to speculation.<BR/><BR/>The need for a "third major system" is an unquestionable pillar of faith in the GW corporate mentality. Personally, I would love to see the return of some of the "smaller" and more self contained games from GW - games that served as entry games for new customers, and also allowed customers to continue to enjoy GW games even when they no longer have the time to be fully committed to the "lifestyle games" (WHFB and 40K). Games like Space Hulk (with injection molded plastic floor pieces - they could even sell them as expansion packs), Warhammer Quest, Battlefleet Gothic, Mordheim, Necromunda, Talisman, and Blood Bowl are all good games, and fit the business model of many other game companies (Fantasy Flight or Days of Wonder, for example) who sell a game and one or two expansion sets, returning it to production when demand builds up.JoeDoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04768616880852081399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-88406240062724709402008-02-16T22:54:00.000-08:002008-02-16T22:54:00.000-08:00Unfortunately, what also separates them from other...Unfortunately, what also separates them from other miniatures companies is that they are publicly traded and their stock is doing very poorly.<BR/><BR/>Also, I have to correct your statement on their core products. They produce two core products that everyone wants, and one that no one wants, but which they appear to be contractually obligated to continue to support.<BR/><BR/>If there's one thing that they could do to improve their bottom line, it would have to be ditching the Lord of the Rings license, yet they haven't done it.<BR/><BR/>Instead they are cutting profitable lines and creating more ill-will amongst their customer base in the process.<BR/><BR/>I am not one of these people who think that GW dying would be a good thing (especially not for BDG!), but for the first time since I started paying attention to the company, I'm really starting to wonder if there will be a 30th anniversary of Warhammer Fantasy at this rate.Fulminatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14332824290977548527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-31039858263897057672008-02-16T18:22:00.000-08:002008-02-16T18:22:00.000-08:00Correct, but for *me* I've only experienced one ve...Correct, but for *me* I've only experienced one version and no alienation over being left behind with a new rulebook.Gary Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11897166491600280320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-52962614162563569402008-02-16T17:04:00.000-08:002008-02-16T17:04:00.000-08:00The current version of WHFB is something like 7th ...The current version of WHFB is something like 7th or 8th edition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-82733181352718966912008-02-16T08:03:00.000-08:002008-02-16T08:03:00.000-08:00I can't believe I'm defending Games Workshop, but....I can't believe I'm defending Games Workshop, but....<BR/><BR/>Yes, they're reorganizing their bitz program and you won't be able to get individual body parts, etc., which was great, but I always found difficult to comprehend how it could be profitable. And yes, the timing of the Black Industries closure announcement was baffling and seemed a detached, high level corporate financial decision.<BR/><BR/>However.... and this is what differentiates them from other floundering miniature games .... they still product good core product that everyone wants. <BR/><BR/>Both Privateer Press and Battlefront are putting out releases that are being ignored (mercenaries and Canadians). Meanwhile, I have to whipe the drool off the counter when customers see the new Vampire Counts codex. The recently re-done Chaos Space Marines continue to sell in droves. Nodoby cried when Privateer Press cancelled Iron Kingdoms RPG or when Rackham cancelled Cadwallen, because nobody cared; we're sold out of Dark Heresy after selling 26 copies.<BR/><BR/>Maybe I've just giving them the benefit of the doubt. I haven't been treated poorly by them as a store owner and as a player, there's only ever been one version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.Gary Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11897166491600280320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-27776776558022684312008-02-16T07:51:00.000-08:002008-02-16T07:51:00.000-08:00That may have been true up until recently, but now...That may have been true up until recently, but now there's a lot of "I told you so"s coming from the anti-GW crowd after the cancellation of BI and the Bitz program. <BR/><BR/>Customers never saw the improvements that GW made in its dealings with retailers, they only see GW up to its old tricks of screwing the customer by canceling a good game, or messing with stuff that's important to the veteran gamer.<BR/><BR/>For a lot of people, history <I>is</I> repeating itself when it comes to GW right now.Fulminatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14332824290977548527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-90651539952977764302008-02-15T11:21:00.000-08:002008-02-15T11:21:00.000-08:00Agreed, and the last couple of years saw an explos...Agreed, and the last couple of years saw an explosion of new miniature games that emerged to take advantage of that. Of the various games, Privateer Press is the only one that has does well. The others have either died off or have lost their way. However, some players have found the grass isn't necessarily any greener and they're now going back to Games Workshop.Gary Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11897166491600280320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7150649422744296369.post-72852729780620917302008-02-15T11:15:00.000-08:002008-02-15T11:15:00.000-08:00You can't discount the "I'm through with GW" facto...You can't discount the "I'm through with GW" factor - among both customers and merchants who have suffered through some of the past horrors of GW corporate planning. There was a time when GW demanded high minimum orders, din't provide very god support to retailers, and gave one of the lowest margins in the business.<BR/>Yes, they are doing better now, but some people hold grudges, and others fear that history will repeat itself.JoeDoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04768616880852081399noreply@blogger.com